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PROPHET

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Articles Posted: 2; Links Seeded: 578
Member Since: 3/2006

A Far Too Convenient $mear: Part One

Read ArticleArticle Source: seeingtheforest.com
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Did you honestly think that the Right Wing $mear machine was going to let Al Gore stand up with the terrific team who created and direct the movie and receive an Oscar for "An Inconvenient Truth?"

Did you really believe they would stand by and watch a Democratic leader validated for his life's work?

No chance in hell. As we have said here before, They destroy our leaders. Note to Senator Obama: spare us the hope and bi-partisanship talk and help us fight back.

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6.6
{"commentId":556486,"authorDomain":"indecent"}

We needed this. Thanks, Prophet; the best way to combat threads that are smears and lies is with a seed that houses the truth.

{"commentId":556486,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"indecent"}
  • 14 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:56 AM EST
{"commentId":556592,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

I actually almost seeded this myself - you got to it first though. Curses! Foiled again.

So I wrote an article instead.

Al Gore's Electric Bill, Carbon Credits, and A Lesson In Economics

{"commentId":556592,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"killfile"}
  • 15 votes
#1.1 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:50 AM EST
{"commentId":556677,"authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}

Great to see the truth of the Rovian smears nipped in the bud, fantastic seed. The exchange here makes me want to know what fuel Killfile runs on though. Lost a seed found an article, go youth!

{"commentId":556677,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
  • 13 votes
#1.2 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:23 PM EST
{"commentId":557125,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

Coffee. About 12 cups a day.

I wonder what kind of carbon credits I'd need to buy to keep that up...

{"commentId":557125,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"killfile"}
  • 7 votes
#1.3 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:33 PM EST
{"commentId":558905,"authorDomain":"mooninbluewater"}

Only part I have a problem with:

Note to Senator Obama: spare us the hope and bi-partisanship talk and help us fight back.

Fighting fire with fire is just a race to the bottom (pardon the mixed metaphors). The best way to fight back is to fight differently -- notice how the Iraqi insurgency is doing?

If Obama just turns into another of the same, I'm not interested. Hillary's gotten better at it than the Republicans which is why they secretly fear her and why I'm not voting for her: Tweedledee or Tweedledum is not much of a choice.

{"commentId":558905,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"mooninbluewater"}
  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:55 PM EST
{"commentId":558909,"authorDomain":"mooninbluewater"}

Killfile:

Coffee. About 12 cups a day.

I wonder what kind of carbon credits I'd need to buy to keep that up...

In principle, drinking coffee encourages more coffee plants, which convert carbon-dioxide back to oxygen. Drink enough, and you probably offset your car. Assuming you don't drive around at 90 mph in a caffeine-craze all the time.

{"commentId":558909,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"mooninbluewater"}
  • 3 votes
#1.5 - Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:59 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":556502,"authorDomain":"quixiotic"}

I didn't even think about the bull$hit that went on with that, I just shrugged it off as "eh" but thank you truly for opening my eyes on this one!

{"commentId":556502,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"quixiotic"}
  • 6 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:02 AM EST
{"commentId":556536,"authorDomain":"coloradobob1"}

Dept. of Revenue says conservative think tank 'not a legitimate group'
By John Rodgers, jrodgers@nashvillecitypaper.com
February 16, 2007

The state's Department of Revenue is refusing to respond to inquiries from a conservative watchdog organization over a controversial tax, labeling them "not a legitimate group."

http://www.nashvillecitypaper.com/index.cfm?news_id=54656

{"commentId":556536,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"coloradobob1"}
  • 8 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:19 AM EST
{"commentId":556680,"authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}

Nice work there Bob, awesome light shed on the subject.

{"commentId":556680,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
  • 6 votes
#3.1 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:25 PM EST
{"commentId":556753,"authorDomain":"comsen"}

The statement by the "Dept. of Revenue" in the article may be politcally motivated and not factual. The article says

In response, Johnson said the revenue department is "overtly keeping information from the public" and "overtly trying to block information from a group that they are afraid might be critical of them."

"It doesn't matter if it's some guy in his basement wanting to call and know how much this budget number is," Johnson said. "It's not their role to decide who receives essentially public information — how tax dollars are spent."

{"commentId":556753,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"comsen"}
  • 2 votes
#3.2 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:58 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":556729,"authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}

mine if i republish this
there are two about Al electric bill on the front page

{"commentId":556729,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"JoulesBeef"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#4 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:48 PM EST
{"commentId":556742,"authorDomain":"comsen"}

Funny thing is, if the information is wrong, what is his energy usage? Seems Gore's defenders are attacking the other side, not providing any opposing data.

{"commentId":556742,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"comsen"}
  • 7 votes
Reply#5 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:53 PM EST
{"commentId":556752,"authorDomain":"stephan"}

Because he can't... The bill amounts were taken from public record. However, they (the Gores) are stating that they work from home and that should be taken into consideration.

{"commentId":556752,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"stephan"}
  • 2 votes
#5.1 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:57 PM EST
{"commentId":556754,"authorDomain":"agio"}

Why should his energy bills, or anyone's for that matter, be a matter of public debate?

{"commentId":556754,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"agio"}
  • 2 votes
#5.2 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:58 PM EST
{"commentId":556758,"authorDomain":"comsen"}
Why should his energy bills, or anyone's for that matter, be a matter of public debate?

Because he has made it part of the public debate perhaps.

{"commentId":556758,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"comsen"}
  • 6 votes
#5.3 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:00 PM EST
{"commentId":556786,"authorDomain":"agio"}

That makes no sense at all. Al Gore's pet issue is reducing carbon emissions, not wasting electricity. And as a matter of fact, he purchases carbon offsets to reduce his carbon footprint.

So again what significance does this argument have?

{"commentId":556786,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"agio"}
  • 5 votes
#5.4 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:10 PM EST
{"commentId":556803,"authorDomain":"stephan"}

But carbon emissions and wasted electricity and natural gas go hand in hand. Last time I checked, when you turn on a light switch, you are increasing carbon emissions. They are directly correlated. Even if you buy all of your power from "green" suppliers, you at times get power from coal and gas fired plants.

I do not know of a single true 100% green facility and to say that there is one and that's how he gets his power is a little much. I like that he uses solar panels, but that doesn't make up for heating a pool, keeping a pool house warm/cool, etc.

Also, if Gore is using that much power you would think he'd build a little wind farm in his backyard.

{"commentId":556803,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"stephan"}
  • 3 votes
#5.5 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:17 PM EST
{"commentId":556808,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}
Funny thing is, if the information is wrong, what is his energy usage? Seems Gore's defenders are attacking the other side, not providing any opposing data.

He's bringing his carbon footprint to zero if he hasn't already. The amount of energy that he uses is irrelevant.

Responding to Drudge's attack, Vice President Gore's office told ThinkProgress:

1) Gore's family has taken numerous steps to reduce the carbon footprint of their private residence, including signing up for 100 percent green power through Green Power Switch, installing solar panels, and using compact fluorescent bulbs and other energy saving technology.

2) Gore has had a consistent position of purchasing carbon offsets to offset the family's carbon footprint — a concept the right-wing fails to understand. Gore's office explains:

What Mr. Gore has asked is that every family calculate their carbon footprint and try to reduce it as much as possible. Once they have done so, he then advocates that they purchase offsets, as the Gore's do, to bring their footprint down to zero.

What is your carbon footprint and what are you doing to bring it down?

{"commentId":556808,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
  • 11 votes
#5.6 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:20 PM EST
{"commentId":556867,"authorDomain":"stephan"}

Well, let's see... I donate to US Methane, I live in a townhome with solar panels (I put power on the grid), and I use natural gas when I can.

And oddly enough, I work in the oil, gas, and utilities industry. ;-)

{"commentId":556867,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"stephan"}
  • 3 votes
#5.7 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:44 PM EST
{"commentId":556960,"authorDomain":"dwchin"}

I believe what's important here is that he too has installed solar panels and the like to to reduce his own carbon footprint. The actual amount of energy is irrelevant if his carbon footprint is low relative to the footprint of an average household. And by that, we're talking proportions -- big house, bigger footprint unless you actively attempt to reduce it as much as possible, as Gore has done. He has a large house and does what he can to make it "green." How small of a home would Gore need to live in for there to be no smear attacks? Most average American households likely do nothing to reduce their carbon footprints, and using the argument "their houses are smaller and therefore they don't need to" would be silly. The point of the documentary was to stress the need for everyone to do their part to, for example, reduce their relative carbon footprint, not for everyone to downsize their homes to consume less total energy.

{"commentId":556960,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"dwchin"}
  • 6 votes
#5.8 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:18 PM EST
{"commentId":557058,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}

My family's carbon footprint is 5.7 tons per year. Less than the average of 7.5 tons. My electrical consumption is not a significant contributor. The biggest factor in my emissions is my car, which I intend to replace with a hybrid as soon as I can.

{"commentId":557058,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
  • 3 votes
#5.9 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:06 PM EST
{"commentId":557238,"authorDomain":"indecent"}

Mine is 3.8, and we live in an apartment. It's gone down this year alone, though, getting rather proud of that fact ;) Luckily for me, although I own a manual transmission car, I put less than 8,000 miles on it this year, so thats cut down a lot for me. I agree with dwchin - what kind of house does Gore have to live in for the smearers to stop? He already pays an extra 500 a month of greener sources, and I rather doubt that included the cost of his solar panels.

{"commentId":557238,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"indecent"}
  • 6 votes
#5.10 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:13 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":556844,"authorDomain":"MCLiepshutz"}

If any organization has R.Mellon Scaife attached to it, plug your nose and run in the opposite direction. YaY! great seed.. and yeah boy.. i agree with your comment re: Obama. It is truly hard to play nice with thugs. Take off the gloves I say.

{"commentId":556844,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"MCLiepshutz"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:32 PM EST
{"commentId":557041,"authorDomain":"rollie"}

This whole CCCC (Conspicuous Consumption of Carbon Credits) by Al Gore and Hollywood types is perhaps not as useful as many would like to claim. For example, this report entitle The Carbon Neutral Myth states:

The Carbon Neutral Myth highlights several ways in which this approach to climate change is fundamentally flawed. The first chapter examines how the existence of offset schemes presents the public with an opportunity to take a 'business as usual' attitude to the climate change threat. Instead of encouraging individuals and institutions to profoundly change consumption patterns as well as social, economic and political structures, we are being asked to believe that paying a little extra for certain goods and services is sufficient. For example, if one is willing to pay a bit more for 'offset petrol' one doesn't have to worry about how much is consumed, because the price automatically includes offsetting the emissions it produces.
{"commentId":557041,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"rollie"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#7 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:54 PM EST
{"commentId":557104,"authorDomain":"stephan"}

This is a good point. What we are encouraging is people to pay to hurt the environment. It's kind of like the study done at the daycare when parents were late. By charging, the parents were continually late picking up their children instead of forcing them to be on time.

{"commentId":557104,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"stephan"}
  • 4 votes
#7.1 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:26 PM EST
{"commentId":558088,"authorDomain":"nickford"}

Freakonomics did rule, didn't it?

{"commentId":558088,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"nickford"}
  • 2 votes
#7.2 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:24 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":557203,"authorDomain":"hallo"}
Daniel A. HalloDeleted
{"commentId":557410,"authorDomain":"gpolya"}

The REAL issue is not X's or Y's domestic electricity bill (a typical smearing Bush-ite obfuscation in the present context) but the acute threat posed by global warming as most recently summarized by the latest IPCC Report (see: link).

Thus US, Australia and Canada are the BIG countries with the highest annual per capita greenhouse gas production; Australia and the US refuse to sign Kyoto and Canada is grossly violating its Kyoto obligations; Australia is the world's biggest coal exporter; and the US is the world's biggest greenhouse gas polluter.

These selfish, dishonest, racist Bush-ite regimes and their supporters are threatening the Planet - thus West Bengal (pop. 85 million) and Bangladesh (pop. 147 million) are acutely threatened through Western profligacy, global warming, sea level rise and storm surges; a few weeks ago the West Bengal island of Lohachara (pop. 10,000) disappeared into the Bay of Bengal (see: link ).

Let there be no mistake - the World will send these racist, greedy, dishonest, irresponsible Third World Mother-abusing, Third World Child-abusing, climate criminal Bush-ite regimes an expertly prepared, accrual accounting-based BILL one day - and payment will be enforced by international Proceedings, Sanctions and Boycotts. What price 10,000 Bengalis - what price 230 million?

{"commentId":557410,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"gpolya"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#9 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:37 PM EST
{"commentId":557431,"authorDomain":"tom"}

good stuff prophet. after 10 years of not having a car, i finally bought a hybrid. when i drive it (specifically, when i'm stopped in traffic), i'm reminded that automotive technology has been asleep at the wheel for the past 25 years.

the recent technological advances for automobiles have all gone into more power, not increased fuel efficiency, which is sad. good thing Toyota and Honda are leading the way with hybrids ... to bad it's not Ford or GM.

{"commentId":557431,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"tom"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#10 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:46 PM EST
{"commentId":558546,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}

Thanks Tom, I work in the automotive industry and I've seen a lot of great ideas fall by the wayside in the past since they weren't profitable. I would like to see more done with fuel cell technology but man, it's expensive to develop.

BTW, I've heard that the Saturn Vue is the most affordable hybrid on the market.

{"commentId":558546,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
  • 2 votes
#10.1 - Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:09 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":557486,"authorDomain":"divbyzero"}

Conservatives (political, not resource) glorify consumption. At least the Gore family is concerned about reducing their carbon footprint in spite of having a large estate. I know conservatives (political, not resource) who proudly say they would never drive anything smaller than an SUV, never drive a hybrid, electric, or hydrogen vehicle as long as gasoline is available, and who would boast of having a high power bill. I know one couple who live in a 13,000 square foot home with their 3 dogs and see nothing wrong with such excess. I doubt they're concerned about their resource consumption.

This is all about smear instead of common sense.

{"commentId":557486,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"divbyzero"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#11 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:12 PM EST
{"commentId":557496,"authorDomain":"Cassandra"}

What bugs me is how Americans when interviewed repeatedly say they hate dirty, smear-type stuff, but then appear to pay attention to these things anyway and let it influence their votes. Thanks for getting the truth out on this one, anyway. Will you contact the papers, etc. who are repeating this guff and give them the benefit of your research? If so, it will be interesting to find out later if any of them bother to print what you send them.

{"commentId":557496,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"Cassandra"}
  • 5 votes
Reply#12 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:16 PM EST
{"commentId":557614,"authorDomain":"webweasel"}

The problem is that the dirty smear-type stuff is quoted as fact long after being discredited by other news sources and that gives it the appearance of truth.

{"commentId":557614,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"webweasel"}
  • 3 votes
#12.1 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 PM EST
{"commentId":557920,"authorDomain":"divbyzero"}
The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar.
{"commentId":557920,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"divbyzero"}
  • 4 votes
#12.2 - Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:14 PM EST
Reply
{"commentId":558210,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

Great job, Prophet.

{"commentId":558210,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#13 - Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:52 AM EST
{"commentId":558552,"authorDomain":"miasma"}

Ken Olberman weighs in on the $mear.

I am still laughing at the concepts of "conservative" and "think tank" together in one phrase.

{"commentId":558552,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"miasma"}
  • 3 votes
Reply#14 - Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:12 AM EST
{"commentId":558586,"authorDomain":"Prophet"}

Thanks for the link.

I believe the conservative pronunciation is "thank tank".

{"commentId":558586,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"Prophet"}
  • 4 votes
#14.1 - Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:31 AM EST
{"commentId":558744,"authorDomain":"miasma"}

All I know is after hearing much of it I needs to go to the drink tank.

{"commentId":558744,"threadId":"80253","contentId":"589044","authorDomain":"miasma"}
  • 3 votes
#14.2 - Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:07 AM EST
Reply
{"commentId":559013,"authorDomain":"hallo"}
Daniel A. HalloDeleted
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